
It has been almost four years since 47 of Taliban fighter Abdurrazak Yousufzai’s close friends and family members were mistakenly killed by U.S. bombs at a wedding party in Deh Bala, Afghanistan.
As the war in Afghanistan rages into its second decade, you might expect Yousufzai to be an angry, bloodthirsty Pashtun desperate for revenge against his family’s killers; but you would be wrong. Yousufzai, 24, recently turned himself in at a local police station in Jalalabad in his native Nangarhar province. He has offered his services to President Karzai to, as he puts it, “rid my beloved homeland of the terrorist menace.”
Mainstreamisms is the first international media outlet to speak to Yousufzai. This is his remarkable story, in his own words:
Mainstreamisms: Abdurrazak Yousufzai, thank you for taking the time to speak to us.
AY: In the name of God, most gracious most beneficent. It is my pleasure.
Mainstreamisms: Why did you join the Taliban in the first place?
AY: After the incident at Deh Bala, I was upset. We are actually from a nearby village. We were walking, all of us in the wedding party, to Deh Bala and stopped for a rest. This is when the helicopter gunships hit us. It was chaotic, very bloody. Many died. The bride was my sister. She died. Three of my brothers died. Many cousins. We have a big family, most of us were there. It was a bad day.
Mainstreamisms: That’s when you decided to join the Taliban?
AY: At first the Americans said it wasn’t them. But after they admitted that it was, and they thought we were terrorists, a local commander came to talk to me. I was 21, I was incensed. He gave me an AK-47 and promised me 10,000 Afghanis (roughly$200) a month if I joined him and his men to kick out the invaders and exact revenge in the name of my family and our honour. At first it gave me pride. I hardly did much, quite boring actually, I was just to keep my weapon and gather at an agreed location to fire at certain invisible targets from time to time. I myself prefer reading. So after a while my anger dissipated. Especially after I began visiting Jalalabad’s internet cafes.
Mainstreamisms: What happened there, tell us what led you to defect?
AY: Well first of all I need to thank my uncle, who was badly wounded in that mistaken bombing. He doesn’t have arms and legs now. I want to thank him because he always insisted on the value of an English education. He used to be an English teacher at a school in Kabul many years ago. So he gave me the tools to uncover the internet.
Mainstreamisms: Tell us what you read there…
AY: I would use some of the 10,000 Afghanis the Taliban commander was giving me to travel to Jalalabad and visit one internet cafe. Then another. On my first day I was so excited I typed “Afghanistan” into google but came across so many negative things about. I think I spelt it wrong the first time actually! (Chuckles) Then slowly, slowly, month by month I started reading many articles about my country and the global implications of the war. So now, I consider my time with the local unit of the Taliban to have been an aberration. A mistake that any young man might make, but one that needs to be rectified as soon as one attains wisdom. Which is what I have done now.
Mainstreamisms: What do you mean? You support the war now?
AY: My time memorizing the Quran in my village when I was six years old, trained my memory well. So I would remember everything I read on the internet on my trips to Jalalabad. For example, Thomas L. Friedman really opened my eyes up to the post-9/11 realities on the ground. And the necessity to oust the Taliban and get rid of Al Qaeda sanctuaries. He said: “Think of all the nonsense written in the press—particularly the European and Arab media—about the concern for ‘civilian casualties’ in Afghanistan. It turns out many of those Afghan ‘civilians’ were praying for another dose of B-52’s to liberate them from the Taliban, casualties or not.”
That really got me thinking. I realized my family may have died, while regrettable…my sister and brothers may have died…they died for a higher purpose.
Mainstreamisms: Who else were you reading?
AY: Hitchens, Christopher Hitchens as well, God rest his soul. Gone too soon. He was a powerhouse. Every word that I read, it felt like chains were coming off my mind. When he said:
“We are rid of one of the foulest regimes on earth, while one of the most vicious crime families has been crippled and scattered….I was highly impressed by the evolution of military strategy and tactics since the bombs-away inglorious days of the Vietnam era. Many of the points made by the antiwar movement have been consciously assimilated by the Pentagon and its lawyers and advisers. Precision weaponry is good in itself, but its ability to discriminate is improving and will continue to improve. Cluster bombs are perhaps not good in themselves, but when they are dropped on identifiable concentrations of Taliban troops, they do have a heartening effect.”
Wow. Powerful stuff. And when you consider that NATO and the Americans are all taking the utmost care in restricting civilian casualties and collateral damage - and I as a Taliban fighter was a legitimate target…it made sense for me, and it makes sense for my people to be on the right side of history.
Mainstreamisms: But what did your family know about 9/11 or the geopolitics of the region? They were completely innocent.
AY: I ask myself these questions on a daily basis. Were they really completely innocent? When I consider how quickly most of those who were left in my village mobilized to join the Taliban, it tells me there is something wrong with us, structurally. As a society. What is wrong with our education system? The way we treat our women, it is appalling. I have also been googling some history. How many Sioux or Navajo are in charge of their own affairs in America. How many aboriginal Australians have won a Nobel Prize? This is important to realize. Sometimes the march of progress takes casualties, but often those casualties have themselves to blame for failing to fix themselves before they need the help of others to rebuild, rejuvenate and restore glory to their civilization for the greater benefit of all. Foreign invaders you might say. As a Pashtun, who believes in the hospitality of our cultural code Pashtunwali, I take it as a duty to welcome foreigners bearing gifts, knowledge, progress.
Mainstreamisms: But after ten years not much has changed in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led invasion, if you look at the statis…
(Interrupts)
AY: That’s because the Taliban continues to want to keep us in the stone ages. Because of their so-called resistance.
Mainstreamisms: What about women’s rights? The Afghanistan Human Rights and Democracy Organisation recently said: “In practice, the demands of extremist elements residing in the presidential palace, particularly those in the judicial bodies as well as the Afghan Ulema Council, always outweigh those of the international community,” and it also said President Karzai is endorsing legislation that cements women as second-class citizens.
AY: I agree that violence against women is in all communities in Afghanistan, among us the Pashtuns, the Hazara, the Tajiks… This is all the more reason for us to seek more western help, not less. Step-by-step. Did you see the Time Magazine cover with the woman with her nose and ears cut off?
Mainstreamisms: Yes.
AY: Time was right. This is what will happen if western forces leave Afghanistan. All women will be like this. If the Taliban wins…and their so-called resistance, which I am ashamed to have been apart of.
Mainstreamisms: But what about the resistance to the Soviets in the 1980s? Was that wrong?
AY: We are a proud people and communism was something else. That needed to be resisted. Besides, if we had turned fully red during that time, I read a paper on this in Foreign Affairs…then the entire hemisphere’s future might’ve been different. The Soviet sphere of influence would’ve extended.
Mainstreamisms: What do you mean?
AY: That would’ve been the end of free market economics and democracy, period.
Mainstreamisms: How?
[Long Pause]
AY: I’m still doing some research on that.
Mainstreamisms: Talking about being a proud people, how has your family responded to your defection?
AY: Well, most are dead, as I mentioned earlier. But they are martyrs anyway. The others who survived are either Taliban or Taliban sympathizers: I tried to test the waters by providing some of the rationale for the war, but it didn’t “fly” as you might say. But most are illiterate, peasant types. They only know that this is their land; any invaders who might’ve killed some of their family members need to be fought. Most, except my uncle, don’t even know who Hamid Karzai is, have never even been to Kabul, have never heard of Pakistan, have never heard the word democracy, they are Taliban and they don’t even know who Osama Bin Laden is too, can you believe it? Eh? It’s a little primitive… endearing too. Anyway, I decided to leave and hand myself in before any of them did anything silly.
Mainstreamisms: This brings up an interesting point. What do you think of Bin Laden’s killing?
AY: He got what he deserved.
Mainstreamisms: And as a Pashtun from the border area, who has fellow Pashtuns across the border in Pakistan, where there are Pakistani Taliban (Tehreek e Taliban), what do you think is Pakistan’s role in all of this?
AY: It’s regrettable that my people are still in this archaic, pre-nation state mentality. They know nothing of sovereignty or anything like that. Not only do they not recognize the border, many don’t even know there is one. Primitive, really. So they wander across into Pakistan and get themselves shot sometimes. Pakistan as a nation is duplicitous, I have read. I like that word. Did I say it right?
Mainstreamisms: Yes. But what about Pakistan’s sovereignty being violated by the U.S. with the raid and Bin Laden’s killing? What do you think of Bin Laden’s killing inside Pakistan without the knowledge of the government there? And the drone attacks?
AY: Hitchens, God rest his soul, said it best: “If the Pakistani authorities had admitted what they were doing, and claimed the right to offer safe haven to al-Qaeda and the Taliban on their own soil, then the boast of ‘sovereignty’ might at least have had some grotesque validity to it. But they were too cowardly and duplicitous for that. And they also wanted to be paid, lavishly and regularly, for pretending to fight against those very forces.”
Mainstreamisms: And drones?
AY: As far as I know they take minimal civilian casualties. Even less than those in Afghanistan. America should consider using more here in Afghanistan, they are probably the most humane instruments of war. And war is ugly, let’s not forget. If we had more unmanned drones over here maybe my sister would’ve still been alive. And my brothers. And my cousins.
Mainstreamisms: How did you react when you heard that the accused U.S. Sgt. Robert Bales shot dead at least 16 civilians southwest of Kandahar. President Obama called it shocking. President Karzai condemned it too. How did you react?
AY: See, great leaders condemn these things. I’ve yet to hear Mullah Omar condemn a suicide bombing in a market.
Mainstreamisms: But the act itself?
AY: I think a full investigation needs to be had first. Can we be absolutely sure these were 100% civilians? Believe me, as a former Taliban, it’s not that simple. Also, I think this guy might have some “screws loose” as you might say. Besides, think of this: You live comfortably in America. Where the weather is good, people are friendly, you eat what you want, do whichever job you want to do, you can act in movies or be a doctor or imam or astronaut, nobody is shooting at you, you can marry whoever you want - and then they send you to a place like Afghanistan for one, two, three years where it’s dusty, poor, your wife is not with you and people like the Taliban are shooting at you all the time. These things can sometimes lead you to become angry, make mistakes.
Mainstreamisms: Abdurrazak Yousufzai it has been a pleasure speaking to you.
AY: And you. Peace be upon you.